But does it matter what you, as a dockworker, have heard or believe? I asked the MD of China shipping, and reported what he said: "LGW has improved". He's the man with the chequebook. If he thinks he might be able to sign a slightly smaller cheque, and not have his vessels sitting at anchor, then he might well decide to move his UK port call.
Of course the more they (LGW) does it the better they will get , until the cranes are working to capacity then the cranes will break down like they all do ,and the ships find it difficult to keep to schedules for whatever reasons ( just like buses) and it all goes round again !!!
Exactly right. The real interest at the moment is that with an increase in port capacity, but little increase in traffic, competition will be hard - everyone needs the business to pay the bills. At the point when Felixstowe made the decision to go with 8 & 9 rather than the full FSR development, they gave DPW the time they needed to get into the marketplace.
That's 20/20 hindsight of course, no-one could know back then that 8 & 9 would be busy most of the time, and undersized to cope with the newest ships. But running businesses is sometimes about making the right guesses. . .
To be fair to all parties - considering the charges and public upgrades that come with the full development - What invester would put the money up for the whole development? considering your competitors could also the improvements you have just paid for! Get the government to scrap the add-ons, attract the investment and start competing properly against each other.
Some very valid points on this issue. If we were all told up front as to what is going on with these issues there would be no need for speculation / bickering / finger pointing / rumours etc. Let's hope coming out of this recession will get rid of flexible rostering / zero hours contracts and the " you are lucky to have a job " being chucked in your face. We are Dockers doing a dangerous unsociable hours job. Let's all stay together and make our job a GOOD one now and for the future.
I don't see that my attitude is at all different - this is what I said:
"All of the ocean carriers talk to all the port owners all the time, and to each other. They get accurate reports from port owners and ship's crew on every port call. They're not bothered about your working conditions, and they are not interested in what dockworkers think about performance rates. What they want is for their ships to be handled on time, every time, with a chance of early berthing, so they can get ahead of schedule and slow down at sea, saving money. They want their ships handled reliably, and cheaper than whatever they are paying now."
I think I'm saying exactly the same - shipping companies are not interested in ports or portworkers other than that they are essential service suppliers. Effectively, they buy port services in the same way that they buy fuel and other services/supplies, at a minimum cost, subject to the port being able to comply with the line's other requirements such as slots, turnaround, etc. All the stuff about "we have a great working relationship", is mainly PR . . drop the cost, fit our needs better, and you'll get the trade.
The only comment about portworkers that I've made here is this: "But does it matter what you, as a dockworker, have heard or believe?", and I made that comment because the I think that from your employer's viewpoint, it doesn't matter much - if at all! Honestly, I don't think I've made any comment about what I personally think about anyone's working conditions - that isn't my job.
I'm sure people in the street would say that "they care" about working conditions, etc., but I'd say that people hardly ever think about topics like this.
Chris if you are a journalist maybe that would be a very good story,' working conditions on Ports' most journalists cannot get any futher than a dockers wages. Many Port workers could give you a story about working conditions but are so afraid of the consequence. You wil not get the truth from any company about its working conditions, as you haver said, PR is what matters.
That's exactly the problem, isn't it? I make all my stories on video, which generates an income so I don't have to be restricted by a publisher's requirements, and as I'm increasingly retired, I only have to do stories that interest me.
I'd be fascinated to do a story like this, but would have to have a docker or 2 who'd talk in front of a camera, even back to the camera with a distorted voice, and who would have adequate graphic proof, photos or video, demonstrating what they talked about.
It would be a story worth researching, but you need to speak to real people not the HR lot that have been brain washed by the board. You never know who might be willing!
Well, it's an open offer. I'll make a story, but need people to talk to who fully know what they are talking about, and evidence which is looks and is solid. Don't forget that I may have my own viewpoints on or after doing the work, too.
some good posts on here. the biggest problem is the management. if they get the work force bickering amongst their selfs. it takes the pressure of of them. its being done in a lot of firms everywhere. but there is no reason why the workforce cant be told things. i know somethings are sensitive and not for rivals to learn about. but it does not stop workfoce being told certin things.roumers start and everone gets hot under the collar.and that helps no one being it workforce or management.
Discharged quickly & efficiently with a very satisfactory container move rate, that's not what I heard.
ReplyDeleteBut does it matter what you, as a dockworker, have heard or believe? I asked the MD of China shipping, and reported what he said: "LGW has improved". He's the man with the chequebook. If he thinks he might be able to sign a slightly smaller cheque, and not have his vessels sitting at anchor, then he might well decide to move his UK port call.
ReplyDeleteOf course the more they (LGW) does it the better they will get , until the cranes are working to capacity then the cranes will break down like they all do ,and the ships find it difficult to keep to schedules for whatever reasons ( just like buses) and it all goes round again !!!
ReplyDeleteExactly right. The real interest at the moment is that with an increase in port capacity, but little increase in traffic, competition will be hard - everyone needs the business to pay the bills. At the point when Felixstowe made the decision to go with 8 & 9 rather than the full FSR development, they gave DPW the time they needed to get into the marketplace.
ReplyDeleteThat's 20/20 hindsight of course, no-one could know back then that 8 & 9 would be busy most of the time, and undersized to cope with the newest ships. But running businesses is sometimes about making the right guesses. . .
ReplyDeleteTo be fair to all parties - considering the charges and public upgrades that come with the full development - What invester would put the money up for the whole development? considering your competitors could also the improvements you have just paid for!
ReplyDeleteGet the government to scrap the add-ons, attract the investment and start competing properly against each other.
Chris how come you're tune is a bit different here than on Facebook where you quote 'people don't care about a dockers working conditions!
ReplyDeleteSome very valid points on this issue. If we were all told up front as to what is going on with these issues there would be no need for speculation / bickering / finger pointing / rumours etc. Let's hope coming out of this recession will get rid of flexible rostering / zero hours contracts and the " you are lucky to have a job " being chucked in your face. We are Dockers doing a dangerous unsociable hours job. Let's all stay together and make our job a GOOD one now and for the future.
ReplyDeleteI don't see that my attitude is at all different - this is what I said:
ReplyDelete"All of the ocean carriers talk to all the port owners all the time, and to each other. They get accurate reports from port owners and ship's crew on every port call. They're not bothered about your working conditions, and they are not interested in what dockworkers think about performance rates. What they want is for their ships to be handled on time, every time, with a chance of early berthing, so they can get ahead of schedule and slow down at sea, saving money. They want their ships handled reliably, and cheaper than whatever they are paying now."
I think I'm saying exactly the same - shipping companies are not interested in ports or portworkers other than that they are essential service suppliers. Effectively, they buy port services in the same way that they buy fuel and other services/supplies, at a minimum cost, subject to the port being able to comply with the line's other requirements such as slots, turnaround, etc. All the stuff about "we have a great working relationship", is mainly PR . . drop the cost, fit our needs better, and you'll get the trade.
The only comment about portworkers that I've made here is this: "But does it matter what you, as a dockworker, have heard or believe?", and I made that comment because the I think that from your employer's viewpoint, it doesn't matter much - if at all! Honestly, I don't think I've made any comment about what I personally think about anyone's working conditions - that isn't my job.
I'm sure people in the street would say that "they care" about working conditions, etc., but I'd say that people hardly ever think about topics like this.
Chris if you are a journalist maybe that would be a very good story,' working conditions on Ports' most journalists cannot get any futher than a dockers wages. Many Port workers could give you a story about working conditions but are so afraid of the consequence. You wil not get the truth from any company about its working conditions, as you haver said, PR is what matters.
DeleteThat's exactly the problem, isn't it? I make all my stories on video, which generates an income so I don't have to be restricted by a publisher's requirements, and as I'm increasingly retired, I only have to do stories that interest me.
DeleteI'd be fascinated to do a story like this, but would have to have a docker or 2 who'd talk in front of a camera, even back to the camera with a distorted voice, and who would have adequate graphic proof, photos or video, demonstrating what they talked about.
It would be a story worth researching, but you need to speak to real people not the HR lot that have been brain washed by the board. You never know who might be willing!
DeleteWell, it's an open offer. I'll make a story, but need people to talk to who fully know what they are talking about, and evidence which is looks and is solid. Don't forget that I may have my own viewpoints on or after doing the work, too.
Deletesome good posts on here. the biggest problem is the management. if they get the work force bickering amongst their selfs. it takes the pressure of of them. its being done in a lot of firms everywhere.
ReplyDeletebut there is no reason why the workforce cant be told things. i know somethings are sensitive and not for rivals to learn about. but it does not stop workfoce being told certin things.roumers start and everone gets hot under the collar.and that helps no one being it workforce or management.
If you want you can visit Beijing China. I love culture of china and great wall..
ReplyDeleteBeijing China